Well, Lo And Behold – The Damn Trick Worked! – Thank you Jerry! – I Think Jerry Has Some Intriguing Techniques, And Personally I Think Everyone Who Constantly Criticizes Him Is Not Understanding His Logic.
Question:
Hello People, Here’s assholciate professor marshall dermer of the Anal-lytical Behavior Dept.at the U of WI telling us to rely on the koehler method for separation anxiety. koheler beats dogs unmercifully for SA behaviors like chewing and barking and stress induced excretion. j;~)
Re: Barking Deterrants Needed… Hi. Please understand that I do not know Jerry and have spoken with him briefly once by email. I have no stake or interest in the success of his business. I simply want to thank him publicly for one of his tips, with regards to separation anxiety. I thought it seemed far fetched to praise a stuffed animal and then say good bye to my own dog, but I am usually a very open minded person, so I tried it. Well, lo and behold- the damn trick worked! I think Jerry has some intriguing techniques, and personally I think everyone who constantly criticizes him is not understanding his logic. Thank you Jerry! professor dermer isn’t satisfied: (Note: I misspelled "separation" in my previous post. –Marshall) Hi David, First, congratulations to you for finding and implementing a procedure that eliminated your dog’s separation anxiety. Did Jerry offer you this advice via USENET, or did you actually read his manual? Nothing succeeds like success, but curious people like to know why a procedure works. The "why?" question can be asked at many levels. We can ask "why" at the enviornmental level and speculate about which environmental aspects of the procedure are necessary and sufficient for it to work. Must one, for example, praise a stuffed animal or will praising a stuffed pillow work? And if the latter will work, will praise itself work? And if the latter will work, is it what was said or how it was said? If it was how it was said, would a wordless melody work? But there are still other possibilities to those who study the environmental variables that control behavior. Perhaps, when you praised the stuffed animal before departing you NEVER IMMEDIATELY RETURNED HOME EVEN THOUGH YOUR DOG WAS RESPONDING ANXIOUSLY whereas previous to using praise you did return home. To the extent the anxious behavior is an operant it is, by definition, controlled by its consequences. The net result is that anxious behavior has been reinforced in the past provided you had not praised the stuffed animal but put on an extinction provided you had praised the stuffed animal. This explanation suggests that if you depart without praising the stuffed animal your dog will behave anxiously! It also suggests that any salient stimulus correlated with your not returning and inadvertently reinforcing your dog’s anxious behavior would be just as effective. Put another way, Jerry’s recommendation although effective, probably only for some cases of separation anxiety, is superstitious because Jerry has not conducted research to discover the necessary and sufficient conditions for the procedure’s effectiveness. We can also ask "why" at the physiological level. I completed a preliminary examination in the physiology of behavior some 30 years ago, so I am not competent to describe the physiological and neurological processes that mediate the procedure’s effectiveness. Indeed, I believe that many of the neuroscientists in my department could not PRECISELY describe what is involved. But Jerry repeatedly makes the claim that his "black box" or his training method stimulate’s a dog’s learning centers. He, of course, provides no research to support this claim. Does Jerry know something about dog training? Yes. Can you learn something from Jerry if you are new to dog training? Yes. But IMHO, Jerry spends more time attacking other sources of advice here on rpdb and in his manual, than does he offer effective advice. Moreover, much of the explanation that he offers as to why his procedures work, for example, the learning center explanation, is bogus. I have learned much here from Diane Blackman, Cindy Moore, Avrama Gingold, Ludwig Smith, Paulette, Steve Boyer, and others but nothing from Jerry Howe. My 87 year-old Aunt Vivian is fond of saying time is precious. May we not waste our precious time, Marshall Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs.behavior View complete thread (230 articles) writes: > -snip headers etc. > Yes. you’re right, I really should find the book.. they don’t have these books > in the local pet stores I frequent, where do you find Koehler? >I got a nice large print copy from Amazon.com >Richard
Please try Powell’s Books in Portland Oregon. Their URL is: http://www.powells.com/ Unlike Amazon.com, Powell’s keeps both new and used books on its shelves. You can order books via e-email. Koehler Method Of Dog Training by Koehler, W R Published by HOWELL BOOK HOUSE (0876056575, 1973) Section: Pets-Dog Training In Stock: 2 at $12.00 Hardcover; Used – Standard Condition; Location: Beaverton Reviews and/or bibliographic information Koehler Method Of Dog Training by Koehler, W R Published by HOWELL BOOK HOUSE (0876056575, 1973) Section: Pets-Dogs General In Stock: 1 at $9.95 Hardcover; Used – Standard Condition; Location: Hawthorne Reviews and/or bibliographic information Powell’s is an independent book seller that is well-positioned to battle amazon.com, Barnes & Noble, etc. Powell’s main store in Portland, OR has a one square block "foot print" and is three stories tall. If you are thinking of buying new or used books—-think Powell’s! http://www.powells.com/ –Marshall PS: My sister-in-law is the manager of the main Powell’s Books in Portland. > May I suggest you use a killfile if you plan to read this group. > Mine looks as follows: > –Marshall
<snip professor lying doc dermer’s killfile> > I have read rpdb for about five years.
Yes, professor. For five years you’ve done nothing but ridicule every competent non violent trainer who’se ever posted here. You’ve told people to killfile me, Marilyn, Canis55, and others who disagree with HURTING dogs, professor descartes. > Consequently,
Consequently, our professor lying doc dermer cannot discuss non force training methods, because that would make him out to be a liar and a hypocrite, People. > I urge newbies to attend to the civil and rational posts of the > rpdb regulars from whom I have learned much.
Yes, professor. Our Gang Of Thugs. Now let’s continue and see – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I have read rpdb for about five years. Consequently, I urge > newbies to attend to the civil and rational posts of the rpdb > regulars from whom I have learned much. They include: Ann > (,Twzl, Sligo & Roy) (SHOCKS DOGS), Amy Dahl (SHOCKS, > BEATS, CHOKES, TWISTS & PINCHES), Diane Blackman > (KOEHLER FAN), jdoee (a rank amature, never contributed > anything worthwhile,), Janet Boss (CHOKES, KILLS, wants to > SHOCK but don’t know enough yet), Susan Fraser (SHOCKS, > BEATS, CHOKES), Avrama Gingold (CHIN CUFF DON’T MEAN > SLAP, CHOKES, would shock but she’s too cheap to buy a shock > collar), Nancy Holmes (loves her SHOCK FENCE), Lynn ("I LOVE > KOEHLER") Kosmakos, SHOCKS, CHOKES, BEATS, KILLS), Bob > Maida (I’ve got $100.00 reward for any five dog behavior posts of > his) (SAYS KILLFILE JERRY, DON’T LET THE DOG DO THAT, > RECOMMENDS KOEHLER, CINDYMOOREON’S WEB SITE) and > when he said he’d endorse my methods if I’d lay off you > bums and I told him to post excellent information and I’d have > nothing to criticize, he began telling people I’m a wanted child > molestor), MaryBeth (noted liar, her dogs eat poo out of each > other’s butts so she can’t chase them away from it),
Hey dude, I’m getting tired of making all these notes next to the names of dog abusers we’ve got here, and it ain’t gettin no better, so I’m moving on… > Ruth Mays, Cindy Tittle Moore, Robin Nuttall, Denna Pace, John > Richardson, Sarah Sionnach, Ludwig Smith, Jane Webb, and Terri > Willis.
Well La Di Da! Every one of them except nuttall and jdoee, are dog abusing Thugs or liars or both. The two noted exceptions aren’t exactly the sharpest knives in the drawer, either. HOWEver I don’t consider them to be dog abusers or liars, based on their posts. > Marshall Lev Dermer/Associate Professor/Behavior Analysis > Specialty/ Department of Psychology/University of > Wisconsin–Milwaukee/ > Milwaukee, WI 53201
HOWEver, about yourself professor? You’re both. Tell us HOWE you punish the dog’s behavior without punishing the dog, professor? That’s why your little dog masturbates on your couch pillows, professor. He does that for one of two reasons. Either he does it because of stress induced by punishment, or he’s doing it because of allelomimetic behavior. > "If I am not for myself, who will be for me. But if I am only > for myself, what am I?" > _The Talmud_
You endorse the koehler method and the above mentioned Thugs who choke, shock, and beat dogs with sticks, professor. I wonder what your Talmud would say about that? I think the Talmud would say you’re a schmuck, professor. Your pal, Jerry.
Response:
Hello People, Here’s assholeciate professor marshall dermer of the Anal-lytical Behavior Dept.at the U of WI telling us to rely on the koehler method for separation anxiety. koehler beats dogs unmercifully for SA behaviors like chewing and barking and stress induced excretion. j;~)
Re: Barking Deterrants Needed… Hi. Please understand that I do not know Jerry and have spoken with him briefly once by email. I have no stake or interest in the success of his business. I simply want to thank him publicly for one of his tips, with regards to separation anxiety. I thought it seemed far fetched to praise a stuffed animal and then say good bye to my own dog, but I am usually a very open minded person, so I tried it. Well, lo and behold- the damn trick worked! I think Jerry has some intriguing techniques, and personally I think everyone who constantly criticizes him is not understanding his logic. Thank you Jerry! professor dermer isn’t satisfied: (Note: I misspelled "separation" in my previous post. –Marshall) Hi David, First, congratulations to you for finding and implementing a procedure that eliminated your dog’s separation anxiety. Did Jerry offer you this advice via USENET, or did you actually read his manual? Nothing succeeds like success, but curious people like to know why a procedure works. The "why?" question can be asked at many levels. We can ask "why" at the enviornmental level and speculate about which environmental aspects of the procedure are necessary and sufficient for it to work. Must one, for example, praise a stuffed animal or will praising a stuffed pillow work? And if the latter will work, will praise itself work? And if the latter will work, is it what was said or how it was said? If it was how it was said, would a wordless melody work? But there are still other possibilities to those who study the environmental variables that control behavior. Perhaps, when you praised the stuffed animal before departing you NEVER IMMEDIATELY RETURNED HOME EVEN THOUGH YOUR DOG WAS RESPONDING ANXIOUSLY whereas previous to using praise you did return home. To the extent the anxious behavior is an operant it is, by definition, controlled by its consequences. The net result is that anxious behavior has been reinforced in the past provided you had not praised the stuffed animal but put on an extinction provided you had praised the stuffed animal. This explanation suggests that if you depart without praising the stuffed animal your dog will behave anxiously! It also suggests that any salient stimulus correlated with your not returning and inadvertently reinforcing your dog’s anxious behavior would be just as effective. Put another way, Jerry’s recommendation although effective, probably only for some cases of separation anxiety, is superstitious because Jerry has not conducted research to discover the necessary and sufficient conditions for the procedure’s effectiveness. We can also ask "why" at the physiological level. I completed a preliminary examination in the physiology of behavior some 30 years ago, so I am not competent to describe the physiological and neurological processes that mediate the procedure’s effectiveness. Indeed, I believe that many of the neuroscientists in my department could not PRECISELY describe what is involved. But Jerry repeatedly makes the claim that his "black box" or his training method stimulate’s a dog’s learning centers. He, of course, provides no research to support this claim. Does Jerry know something about dog training? Yes. Can you learn something from Jerry if you are new to dog training? Yes. But IMHO, Jerry spends more time attacking other sources of advice here on rpdb and in his manual, than does he offer effective advice. Moreover, much of the explanation that he offers as to why his procedures work, for example, the learning center explanation, is bogus. I have learned much here from Diane Blackman, Cindy Moore, Avrama Gingold, Ludwig Smith, Paulette, Steve Boyer, and others but nothing from Jerry Howe. My 87 year-old Aunt Vivian is fond of saying time is precious. May we not waste our precious time, Marshall Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs.behavior View complete thread (230 articles) writes: > -snip headers etc. > Yes. you’re right, I really should find the book.. they don’t have these books > in the local pet stores I frequent, where do you find Koehler? >I got a nice large print copy from Amazon.com >Richard
Please try Powell’s Books in Portland Oregon. Their URL is: http://www.powells.com/ Unlike Amazon.com, Powell’s keeps both new and used books on its shelves. You can order books via e-email. Koehler Method Of Dog Training by Koehler, W R Published by HOWELL BOOK HOUSE (0876056575, 1973) Section: Pets-Dog Training In Stock: 2 at $12.00 Hardcover; Used – Standard Condition; Location: Beaverton Reviews and/or bibliographic information Koehler Method Of Dog Training by Koehler, W R Published by HOWELL BOOK HOUSE (0876056575, 1973) Section: Pets-Dogs General In Stock: 1 at $9.95 Hardcover; Used – Standard Condition; Location: Hawthorne Reviews and/or bibliographic information Powell’s is an independent book seller that is well-positioned to battle amazon.com, Barnes & Noble, etc. Powell’s main store in Portland, OR has a one square block "foot print" and is three stories tall. If you are thinking of buying new or used books—-think Powell’s! http://www.powells.com/ –Marshall PS: My sister-in-law is the manager of the main Powell’s Books in Portland. > May I suggest you use a killfile if you plan to read this group. > Mine looks as follows: > –Marshall
<snip professor lying doc dermer’s killfile> > I have read rpdb for about five years.
Yes, professor. For five years you’ve done nothing but ridicule every competent non violent trainer who’se ever posted here. You’ve told people to killfile me, Marilyn, Canis55, and others who disagree with HURTING dogs, professor descartes. > Consequently,
Consequently, our professor lying doc dermer cannot discuss non force training methods, because that would make him out to be a liar and a hypocrite, People. > I urge newbies to attend to the civil and rational posts of the > rpdb regulars from whom I have learned much.
Yes, professor. Our Gang Of Thugs. Now let’s continue and see – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I have read rpdb for about five years. Consequently, I urge > newbies to attend to the civil and rational posts of the rpdb > regulars from whom I have learned much. They include: Ann > (,Twzl, Sligo & Roy) (SHOCKS DOGS), Amy Dahl (SHOCKS, > BEATS, CHOKES, TWISTS & PINCHES), Diane Blackman > (KOEHLER FAN), jdoee (a rank amature, never contributed > anything worthwhile,), Janet Boss (CHOKES, KILLS, wants to > SHOCK but don’t know enough yet), Susan Fraser (SHOCKS, > BEATS, CHOKES), Avrama Gingold (CHIN CUFF DON’T MEAN > SLAP, CHOKES, would shock but she’s too cheap to buy a shock > collar), Nancy Holmes (loves her SHOCK FENCE), Lynn ("I LOVE > KOEHLER") Kosmakos, SHOCKS, CHOKES, BEATS, KILLS), Bob > Maida (I’ve got $100.00 reward for any five dog behavior posts of > his) (SAYS KILLFILE JERRY, DON’T LET THE DOG DO THAT, > RECOMMENDS KOEHLER, CINDYMOOREON’S WEB SITE) and > when he said he’d endorse my methods if I’d lay off you > bums and I told him to post excellent information and I’d have > nothing to criticize, he began telling people I’m a wanted child > molestor), MaryBeth (noted liar, her dogs eat poo out of each > other’s butts so she can’t chase them away from it),
Hey dude, I’m getting tired of making all these notes next to the names of dog abusers we’ve got here, and it ain’t gettin no better, so I’m moving on… > Ruth Mays, Cindy Tittle Moore, Robin Nuttall, Denna Pace, John > Richardson, Sarah Sionnach, Ludwig Smith, Jane Webb, and Terri > Willis.
Well La Di Da! Every one of them except nuttall and jdoee, are dog abusing Thugs or liars or both. The two noted exceptions aren’t exactly the sharpest knives in the drawer, either. HOWEver I don’t consider them to be dog abusers or liars, based on their posts. > Marshall Lev Dermer/Associate Professor/Behavior Analysis > Specialty/ Department of Psychology/University of > Wisconsin–Milwaukee/ > Milwaukee, WI 53201
HOWEver, about yourself professor? You’re both. Tell us HOWE you punish the dog’s behavior without punishing the dog, professor? That’s why your little dog masturbates on your couch pillows, professor. He does that for one of two reasons. Either he does it because of stress induced by punishment, or he’s doing it because of allelomimetic behavior. > "If I am not for myself, who will be for me. But if I am only > for myself, what am I?" > _The Talmud_
You endorse the koehler method and the above mentioned Thugs who choke, shock, and beat dogs with sticks, professor. I wonder what your Talmud would say about that? I think the Talmud would say you’re a schmuck, professor. Your pal, Jerry.
Response:
Related Posts